FN Herstal v. Jag Precision Lawsuit Summary

Only thing of value lost was the GAT

Brian posted some Cybergun boycott link on facebook.

And zomg PKM.

Brian's being pretty tight-lipped. He's not saying anything about the lawsuit, just about how he suddenly dislikes Cybergun. lol

AN AMD!!! (that will hopefully not be a gajillion dollars like the LCT). Want want want want want.

Why no full sized FAL though? I mean, tactical carbines are cool and all, but a budget full sized would just be fantastic. Even better would be a full size with wood grips...


Bummer their booth got shut down though.

Tried asking Brian about it and no response :-/

Shakes head.

How stupid are they?

If Cybergun holds the right to one replica, Don't bring that REPLICA to SHOT! Idiots...

What replica was it that Cybergun got them shut down for?

what replica did they display that cybergun has rights to? I always thought E1 went through proper channels to get the licensing on most things.

Nope...Echo1 has a lot of replica's with No rights to them in the US.

See the FAL's? FAL > FNH = Cybergun held license in the US.

P90 is another...SCAR...anything FNH.

"So on the Echo-1 incident...The restraining order (which I just received a copy of) is related to the SCAR variants. No other gun(s) are mentioned in that court order, although I suspect there will be similar orders involving the M240 & M249."

And the P90 is next...

Wait, so is it a trademark issue or a whole gun external design issue (like the GBB Glocks)?

If it is the latter, I hadn't heard of companies other than Glock doing such mierda.

Peter Ho from Spartan Imports talks about the incident.

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I would hope it can't be a lawsuit based on external design, that doesn't even seem like it'd be possible. It'd have to be a trademark thing. Perhaps things were labeled as "SCAR" "FAL" and "P90" and they'll just have to do the same the other companies did (i.e. G&G UMG/CA UMC rather than UMP or the WE G39C or whatever they called it). I agree that if we're talking about trademarks, that's fine...you paid the royalties, you get to use the trademarks and the name. However if we're talking "we own the rights from FN so no one else can make a FAL" that's complete and utter @#$^%^ and will completely doom any amount of variety. I'm not going to depend on only one owner of the trademarks to come up with a reasonably priced, quality replica. And not to put too sharp a point on it, I just went to Spartan Imports' website and they are (re-)selling the A&K LR300 (labeled as such) and as far as I know they have no licensing deal with Z-M...so they ought to watch their words.

Echo-1 avoids using model names the same as the real thing. It probably is the silhouette that they own.
Glock did this as well.

Completely based on silhouette...

Looks like RS gun companies are jumping on the PIPA/SOPA bandwagon of fail.


A least with progressive Tula/Izhmash replicas we don't have to deal with gready capitalist companies trying to make a buck off of the airsoft market. I would think that having an abundance of replicas of a RS product would allow people to be comfortable with a particular gun brand and then buy the RS version when they decide that they have need of an actual firearm. It isn't like RS gun companies are lossing money because of airsofters, as RS and airsoft are two seperate markets.

The law is the law...and in the US...it is enforced.

juansinanos, on 21 January 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

..wat

juansinanos, on 21 January 2012 - 10:22 AM, said:

>yfw Izhmash already sold the rights to the Kalashnikov image to Cybergun

Guges was your post regarding silhouette sarcastic? I can't seem to tell.

Also, how would you feel if someone made a replica that has a record for being one of the lowest quality replica's on the market? And you are also not getting anything from that? Pretty sure these companies invested alot of money into their design.

FNH, on 21 January 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

I think a better way to say this would be, "How would you feel if you spent thousands of dollars on R&D for a complex machine, and someone copied the design and re-sold it without consulting you?"

J0KER, on 21 January 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

I know that there are some crappy kalashnikov AEGs out there with a horrendous trademarks that claim to be licensed by cybergun but I haven't heard any problems based on silhouette. Also is it even possible to license the Kalashnikov profile with so many RS clones out there? I'm sure Cybergun doesn't even want to go there. At least my AS VAL is safe from the gready clutches of Cybergun (knock on wood).


Dear Cybergun,

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

juansinanos, on 21 January 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

And those "horrendous replicas" are basically Cyma and Dboys AK's, which people keep saying are some of the best budget guns on the market.

J0KER, on 21 January 2012 - 11:35 AM, said:

It'd be a bit different perhaps if it weren't just the silhouette. Most of the R&D money went into what's going on inside. Plus, for most wildly successful firearms there are lookalike knockoffs and you don't see them trying to sue everyone into the ground. Sig still hasn't had a fit trying to stop EAA from importing Zatavas...anyone who wants the Sig quality will shell out for the Sig.
The argument about quality products would be a valid point but obviously they don't care about the quality that much...from all reviews the H&K trademarked G36 AEGs are pretty shoddy. The RS manufacturers are obviously just taking a bundle of cash for the licensing and forgetting about it, and then Cybergun and the licensing companies are jacking up the price to slap the logo on there.
And if it is all about the silhouette my previous point still stands -- Spartan Imports better watch what they say. The silhouette of the LR-300 and the Sig 556 are both pretty distinctive, and they sell non-licensed versions of both on their website.

I don't think the Kalashnikov replica trademarks apply to the sillhouette, only to the actual trademarks themselves (i.e. a bust of Mikhail and a signature? weird *****).
If they did apply to the sillhouette... well, I would just about fall over laughing considering that couldn't be done for realsteel.

Cybergun owns Spartan. Thus Spartan can sell SIGS.

LR300 is now owned by ParaOrdnance...not sure if Cybergun has PO license rights.

Sounds like the Spartan Imports vs JAG competition is heating up.

Just read the legal document that a friend found and shared with me... Complaint for Patent Infringement 'FN Herstal, S.A. et. al. v. Jag Precision' filed on Jan. 10, 2012.

The Cybergun and FNH products that the defendant JAG Precision imitated was 'Vega Force Company MK16 Light Version in FDE,' 'Vega Force Company MK16 Light Version in Black,' 'Echo1 Advanced Squad Carbine,' 'Echo1 Advanced Squad Carbine HEAVY (ASC-H) in Black,' 'Vega Force Company MK17 in FDE,' and 'Echo1 Advanced Squad Carbine HEAVY (ASC-H).'

The plaintiff FNH states that they have suffered $75,000 worth in damages and demands the defendant JAG Precision to pay "up to 3 times the amount of actual damages or assessed as appropriate under 35 U.S.C. Section 284." Also, "A judgment and order requiring corrective advertising to remedy the actual and potential customer confusion in the marketplace to due to Defendant's unlawful acts;"

That's a total of... $225,000 and advertising... Add that to Echo1/JAG's shaming at Shot Show 2012.

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Didn't spartan get in trouble with classic army scars a few months back for the same reasons.

Now its not an issue. Spartan is owned by Cybergun. Cybergun holds FNH trades as of last year